-----Original Message-----
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 9:05 pm
Subject: FANTASY or REALITY: IN and OUT of PLATO'S CAVE
From: rrdd3939@aol.com
To: rrdd3939@aol.com
Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 9:05 pm
Subject: FANTASY or REALITY: IN and OUT of PLATO'S CAVE
by Richard DePersio
"Cosmic Trinity"-all components listed at: groups.google.com/group/
rickcosmos-eclectic, including, NASA_Ares (Facebook/Twitter)and YouTube:Rickaddsite
PREFACE:
"Between the idea
"Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
-T.S. Eliot
"PLATO'S CAVE - NEW VERSION ( a scientific/philosophical perspective available
at: comsat-ak.blogspot.com).
Dr. Walter Jacobson, psychiatrist- RE: "PLATO'S CAVE - NEW VERSION (psychological perspective)
"this "common sense" world you speak of that we inhabit is NOT real. it is an illusion, we are not bodies, we are mind/consciousness. we have identified with an idea, that idea being ego, and the ego believes in time and space and bodies and disease and death. we invented this world and then forgot that we made it up, and now we can't wake ourselves up out of it...."
Dr. Deepak Chopra (Editor's Note: strange chap, feeling British today), physician turned new-age spiritual/alternative medicine practitioner-"Global Spirit" on "CUNY T.V.": Referring to ancient texts, "I'm not in the world, the world is in me. I'm not in the body, the body is in me. I'm not in the mind, the mind is in me.
The body, the world, the mind happen to me as I curve back within myself and
create again and again. This is scientific fact (Editor's Note: Why not? As we shall
soon see with Kaku). The world exists in your consciousness. The body exists
in your consciousness. Your thoughts exist in your consciousness. Consciousness
ultimate ground of being. The whole world rises and subsides. Shift of identity:
body from ego-based, separate self to unified universal self."
A nurse referring to what she considered a unique out-of-body experience in "Dealing
with Death" on "AmericanLife T.V.: (We paraphrase) They tell me that energy can't
be created or destroyed. Is consciousness like enery. Will it continue after death.
Maybe, you wouldn't be able to think about or order a pizza (Editor's Note: Tis a
pity; now editor feels Italian).
Physics or philosophical perspective: Our common sense world might be a corruption of reality. Reality might exist in the bizarre quantum world and ultimate reality in the stranger quantum/relativity world - if we can find it! Plato with one foot in this world and the other on a higher plane - so he thought. Will we have to except it, as well. (Brain singular or Brain/Mind two sides of same coin. Compliment each other. Will we need to have one foot in this world and the other in the quantum/relativity world?).
BACK IN PLATO'S CAVE:
IT's a commonsensical world of classical physics, chemistry and biology (with
a physics and mathematical foundation). Albeit, a shadowy depiction of reality.
Unbeknownst to those looking forward at the shadows on the wall to the right is an
opening and beyond the cave is the world of relitivity and the world of quantum - both
nonsensical in nature with quantum even further from the cave then relativity. Quantum
is reality. If and when, we create quantum relativity, we will have ultimate reality.
Quantum Relativity plus concepts which are in lock-step: no constants - time and
mass; nothing traveling faster then light except space-time; singularities; bosons,
mass and energy - two forms of same thing; things with mass such as protons
and electrons and things without mass such as visible and invisible light some times behaving like waves and some times like particles; quarks, charm,
strings, electrons in more then one place at the same time; twelve dimensions; many, perhaps, an infinite number of universes; an electron occupying a spot in space-time in one universe while it does the same in ours.
Brandon Carter proposed the philosophical concept known as the the anthropic principle in the early 1970's, wherein the universe appears to be fine-tuned for us to exist. He argued that if the big bang were slightly more energetic or the proton slightly less massive or the constant in E=MC Squared slightly larger or smaller or...well, you get the idea...life based on carbon and water couldn't exist. In the
1980s, when they theorized that there were twelve spatial dimensions plus time
and that of the four fundamental forces in nature (electromagnetism, strong and
weak nuclear forces being the other three) gravity by far is the weakest- they had
an explanation - - gravity was spread over the twelve dimensions. Carter had to
rain on his colleague's parade: If that weren't the case, carbon-based life even
the simplest couldn't exist. Some biologists pointed out that trillions of evolutionary
steps occurred in a certain order leading to intelligent life, including, humans.
This suggested "Intelligent Design" or just plain luck - one in a google not that google but a mathematical one) chance. This reporters favorite example is of two guys
examining plants and animals in a forest. One guy decides to leave message
for anybody that might happen by later. He gathers rocks and spells out "Good
Day" (He was British for an American would undoubtedly go with "Hello"). About
an hour later someone looks down from a cliff and sees the greeting and ponders:
I wonder if a stranger was kind enough to leave this greeting or if years ago or
millions of years ago there was an earthquake and the rocks fell from the cliff
and just happened to land spelling "Good Day"?
Scientists were gnawing at this bedeviling problem for over a couple of
decades when they felt they had came up with a satisfactory multi-verse 'theory.' If there are a large number of universes, perhaps, infinite there could be many or an infinite number of universes like ours with all of us existing in some or an infinite number of them and other people in others, universes like ours without life, others like ours with intelligent carbon/water-based life but no humans, universes with just dust and gas and no stars and planets, universes with different constants or particles or forces and life based a different solid and liquid.
What was the stronger motivation for the 'creation' of multi-universes: science or the possibility of God? Religion has to except science, the converse is not the case.
F. Lee Baily is representing cattle in a libel case against the "U.N. Council on
Climate Change" which claimed for over five years that cattle farts were a major
contributor to global warming. Recently, a janitor realized that the U.N. graph was
upside down or the bottom was up and the homosexual janitor reported his findings
to the top U.N. climatologists, meteorologists and atmospheric physicists -
the same hockey pucks (as Don Rickles would say) who created the infamous
'hockey stick' graph. A U.N. spokesman stated that a formal and official statement
of apology was forthcoming a long with a large heaping of oats.
As anybody else noticed that something has changed over the past thirty years,
especially, ten led by physicist Michio Kaku.Science is based on Fact and Religion
is based on Faith. Many, if not most, would say that both are important and some
cases look at the same thing from a different perspective. You accept or reject
a scientific concept and you believe or disbelieve a religious one. Yet, over past thirty,
especially, ten more and more scientists, especially, physicists are using the
term 'believe' when talking about quarks, strings, brains (membranes), photons
electrons, inflation, dark matter and energy, faster then light travel, electrons,
bosons, etc. Much ado about nothing; it's just a matter of semantics. Leader of
the pack Kaku can't differentiate between speculation and fact. You might say
that religion is speculation. And, that there is scientific speculation backed up
by math or reasoning, theory, widely accepted theory and fact. It could take decades
to go from one step to the next or be disproved at some point on the path.
Sometimes, something could be proven on paper mathematically but it had to
remain speculation if we couldn't make the necessary observations or conduct
the required experiments until such capability became available?
What in Heaven or Quantum happened? Precent-day global-warming is a fact
even though four of the seven major studies released over the past six years indicate
little or no global warming, one points toward global cooling and two moderate-
to large-scale global warming caused by humans or a change in the energy output
of the sun or both- they don't know. Where is Al Gore with his five mansions and
private planes? Increasing the size if his carbon footprint while he places sensors
near heat-generating sources! Cap-and-Trade and Global Warming are politics not
science!
For God's Sake or Mother Nature's...Kaku and the gang are excepting
mathematically-proven speculation as fact. Or they jump quickly from theory
to widely excepted theory or from widely excepted theory to fact. THEY BELIEVE
IN THINGS THAT THEY CAN'T DETECT! They sound more like scientific theologians,
evangelical ministers and fundamentalist preachers!
On the other hand,out of opening to the left of the cave, you got the Bible. It contains God, angels, devils, and is, chock-full of miracles and prophecies. And, God can be in more then one place at a time (sound familiar?!?) and He can't be detected, yet, people swear that He is there - intelligent people - - the ones the liberal elites (We say callow sciolists) look down at from their ivory towers. Jesus can be flesh and spirit. Matter and anti-matter, magnetic north and south, positive and negative charges. Mind and Brain? Ying and Yang.
When asked: who created God; the theologian responds that He always was, is
and will be. Ask astrophysicist the same question and he answers other universes were and that there will be universes forever. Or, our universe oscillates - expands,
contracts, expands - - always has and will. He'll tell you that you can't get something
from nothing. What was there before singularity banged? Space. Nothing became
something. No, space with twelve dimensions and potential regular and dark matter
and energy, as well as potential anti- regular, anti dark and time.
Some Hindu sects wonder if god created man or man created God and if God
is dreaming universe, including, us or if we are dreaming universe, including, God.
Sit back and think. Either it's all rather silly or duality: they are both true. Electrons
are in more then one place on Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays while God is on
Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and they rest on Sundays but not absolute rest.
Brain or duality: Mind/Brain?
"God's first Creature, which was Light."
-Francis Bacon
This journalist maintains that environment creates mind - with a nod in the direction
of Kaku.
"For what a man would like to be true,
that he more readily believes."
-Francis Bacon
Nay; the journey must continue...
It's the next day and this here reporter is returning to this here cave(Editor's Note:English teachers and professors would cry foul at this here construction but this here editor
cuts his ace reporter slack. And, he has no use for schools and colleges for
he contends that the genesis was in the 1920's and incline to the 1960's was only
about 5 degrees. The first and biggest teacher's union was created in the early
1960's and the incline got steep from 5 to 165-fell over left!...Is my A.D.D. showing?... Public elementary and high schools
and to a lesser degree private schools, most of which are Christian, most of which
are Catholic, as well as, virtually all public and private and to a less degree
Christian have gone from being institution of learning to institutions of indoctrination
in liberal philosophy - starting with American history and now in all subjects,including,
math.!).
Many Hindus believe that God creates universe for fun and see everyone having
fun while all he gets to do is sit back and watch and so he becomes part of universe and forgets his identity until next sleep period and while part of universe, therefore,
humans are god too.
What about our friend Plato. The soul is eternal in heaven except to period it
occupies imperfect body. When we learn something new, we are actually
remembering something we knew on the higher plane or heaven but in an imperfect
way because of body. We make a point and it has a little bit of length, width and
depth while the real point doesn't and it doesn't exist anywhere in space and time.
Objects sch as chairs, circles and spheres (he latter two being the most perfect
geometrical shapes to Plato) or concepts such as justice and truth were perfect
forms in heaven. Some humans could perceive better then other (Plato: usually,
philosophers) let's say: between shadow and reality.
Hey! Let's get back to anthropic principle.
Paul Davies felt that there are seven possible consequences of Brandon Carter's
'AP.'
- The absurd universe: Our universe just happens to be the way that it is;
- The unique universe: There s a deep underlying unity in physics which necessitate the universe being the way that it is; Some "Theory ofEverything." will explain why the various features of the universe must have exactly the values that we see;
- The multi-universe: Multiple universes exist, having all possible combinations of characteristics and we inevitably find ourselves within a universe that allows for us to exist;
- Creationism: A Creator designed the universe with the purpose of supporting complexity and the emergence of intelligence;
- The life principle:There is an underlying principle that constrains the universe toward life and mind;
- The self-explaining universe: A closed explanatory loop "perhaps only universes with a capacity for consciousness can exist." This is Wheeler's "Participatory Anthropic Principle" ('PAP');
- We live in a 'Virtual Reality Simulation.'
What does the future hold? Either, various theories for generating eclectic
multi-universes will be will prove robust or evidence that the universe is fine-tuned
When simpler earlier versions appeared they were shrugged off by scientists. Scientists said of Carter's Principle: It's philosophy not science; it's mere speculation; it can't be proven or dis-proven and, therefore resides outside of the scientific realm.
Then why did it seem to trouble them so. Why does it appear that it was the
primary impetus in conceiving the concept of "Parallel Universes" - title of a Kaku
book. Why do they sound more and more like philosophers and theologians - similar
occupatiosns - don't feel like debating point - - scientists don't seem to feel like
their old selfs.s
And what about Jacobson, Chopra (This reporter believes that he is Indian but
born in America and was once on a Hindu and once your writer heard him expound
crazy on the Middle East)...and the journalist!
It would appear that they are heavy on 7, light on 4 with a pinch of Hinduism
We shall converse with Dr. Jacobson.(Chopra is in Plato's Cave discussing the
Middle East with his mummy)'
As for the ace reporter, he isn't ready to commit at this time. CMT; fingers hurt.
Don't 'poor, baby' me. ORIGINAL PROPOSAL - THE MONO/GEMINI PRINCIPLE:
Possibility One: Quantum Relativity is silly, fantasy, fairy tale world or makes
perfect sense if you think out of the box - way out of the box - - thousands of miles
from the cave;
Possibility Two: The Bible is silly, fantasy, fairy tale world or makes perfect
sense and perfectly depicts reality - thousands of miles from the cave - - in the other
direction.
Possibility Three: If you except one, you have to except the other - it's quantum
relativity on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays while Spirituality prevails on Tuesdays,
Thursdays, Saturday and Brahma sleeps for one Brahma day.
Possibilty Four: Our mind isn't capable of understanding it self and the greater
universe.
Possibility Five: We need to return to Plato's Cave real soon!
